Foreign Language Polio: TV Method Thai Progress Report 2
By thomas on Apr 27, 2009 in TV Method
It’s been a little over a month since I started learning Thai using the TV Method. I finished my first drama on April 10th. Since then, I’ve started two new dramas and have been watching them plus some cartoons.
BORING STATS
In the 33 days I’ve been watching Thai television, I’ve racked up about 41 hours of Thai, which is about 1.3 hours a day. I want to try to get this number closer to 2.0. I’ve only missed 3 days, and I’ve made up for all three days by watching double the next day. I like my consistency so far.
NEW UNDERSTANDING
I haven’t learned many new words since the last update, but I’m getting really good at recognizing names now. I’m also doing well at identifying relationships: brothers, sisters, parents, children, friends, employees, etc and determining who is older than who. I don’t know the details, but in Thai I’ve observed that people add a prefix to a person’s name if that person is older than them.
Some words that have jumped out at me are numbers. I’ve seen people count to three. I’ve seen them count to ten. I’ve seen them talking about dates and phone numbers. I don’t know all the Thai numbers yet, but if I hear a string of them I know them for what they are. For example, check out this clip from a cool animated movie about some elephants. At about the 6:00 mark, an elephant is playing hide-and-seek with some frogs. Can you hear the frog counting to ten?
(P.S. check out part 8 of the same movie to see a badass war scene with elephant battles.)
Whenever I watch a drama, I have no problem at all following the general story. Body language says so much and it’s easy to guess what’s going on just by watching the actors and the flow of the scenes. What I don’t get is the details.
I don’t know what people are saying when they talk, but I am starting to recognize that some sounds are said over and over again. Sometimes I find myself making a mental note of it: “oh, there’s that ‘eng’ word again”. I suspect that after a few hundred more hours of hearing these words I will eventually sense some sort of pattern and more understanding will come.
RUNNING MY MOUTH
I’m not there yet though! For now, I just try to copy the sounds with my mouth. I look at the Thai peoples’ faces when they talk and try to copy the shape of their mouths and produce the same sounds. I got the idea to do this from watching my son learn how to speak. He was copying the sounds I made long before he understood what I was saying to him. When he was very little, we would sit in the tub together pa-pa-pa’ing and da-da-da’ing at each other.
I’m hoping that practicing Thai sounds in this way will help my accent in the future. When I took Japanese classes in college way back when, we had to read and speak right away and I think it ruined my pronunciation for life. We learned how to introduce ourselves. The teacher modeled it a few times and then we had to produce it: “Hajimemashite. Watashi ha Tomasu desu. Yoroshiku onegai shimasu.” I didn’t sound anything like a Japanese person! A few times hearing it is not enough!
Then we learned the syllabaries: “this character is ‘hi’”. Too bad my reality of ‘hi’ was completely different from the ‘hi’ of every Japanese kid who ever lived. I was learning the character for ‘hi’ but I couldn’t even say it right (though I thought I could!). And once I learned all of the characters it was too late. Now that I could read, the floodgates were opened. Now I had access to a whole world of Japanese written language, a world that you take in through your eyes instead of your ears. And it reinforced my bad speaking habits over and over again, thousands and thousands of times over.
Tens of thousands. Hundreds even!
I didn’t learn until years later that Japanese “ki” and “hi” and “zu” don’t sound like English “ki”, “hi” and “zu”. Boy was I surprised when I realized even later that NONE of the Japanese sounds have an English match. Mouth shape is so important it’s not funny. It seems so obvious now, but I never thought about it back then. I learned how to speak Japanese primarily with my eyes, looking at black squiggles and turning them into incorrect American English mouth shapes. That’s ridiculous. Even audio input (ie, talking) passes through my (verbally-flawed) hiragana/kanji filter before the meaning is processed by my brain. Unless I’m concentrating hard, my mind will ignore the subtle differences (which make a BIG DIFFERENCE in terms of pronunciation) between the real native Japanese sounds and my internalized off-Japanese sounds.
I never thought about it before now, but learning to read Japanese before I got the sounds down crippled my pronunciation. Stay away from books people! Until you can really talk! Early literacy is foreign language polio. (Disagree? Write a blog post and link back to me ;) )
I’ve worked on fixing some of my Japanese sounds, but I’m so used to talking in a bad accent now that I doubt I can recover completely.
Back on track: I’m trying to get the Thai sounds down before I can understand Thai and definetly before I can read Thai. So I use my ears and eyes (for looking at mouths, not squiggles) and copy Thai people on TV. This will allow me to internalize the Thai sounds so that when I start speaking (around 1000 hours TV time? in theory) I will have the right tools in the toolbox. Moreoever, when I do eventually learn to read I’ll be able to map the correct Thai sounds to the corresponding Thai squiggles (and boy are they squiggles! ;) ).
That’s my hypothesis for this little experiment anyway.
TV Method, Thai, Total Hours: 40.9
Related posts:
- TV Method Thai Progress Report 1 (12 hours)
- TV Method Thai
- Project Mayhem – Learning a Foreign Language Through Movies
- Learning a language is like having a pet
- L2 Holy Grail Books












Good post. I like the observation about Japanese too. I’m currently thinking about how I’m going to be able to continue speaking Japanese and improve my pronunciation at the same time. I feel that the natives are not going to be any help unless I should be so lucky as to find a special one. I need one who can tell when I actually pronounce sounds perfectly. I have some ideas but I need feedback as well. Any ideas?
Keith | Apr 27, 2009 | Reply
Well, I still don’t like the TV method. It seems to me like you are wasting time watching stuff not understanding it.
IF you got some basic knowledge of the language beforehand and then proceeded watching TV, you could understand some and infer so much from the context (and it would happen much faster) and your learning would accelerate way more than it is now.
And by the way, has anybody done those 1,000 required hours? I’d like to see if that worked.
Keith: I was just thinking…. why would you want to pronounce perfectly at once? I think that as long as you don’t get it too bad you should just speak to natives and sooner or later your pronunciation is likely to shift to the one they have. I don’t think enforcing it on yourself is that good of an idea.
lyzazel | Apr 27, 2009 | Reply
@Keith: You might have to pay someone. You could hire a private tutor and tell them you only want to work on pronunciation. I also wonder if a Japanese speech therapist would have knowledge that could help?
Maybe a better solution would be speech analyzing software. Read this interview with Stuart Jay Raj: http://stujay.blogspot.com/2007/10/tomisimo-interview-with-language-master.html .. He talks a little bit on how he uses software to analyze his accent and correct it.
thomas | Apr 27, 2009 | Reply
lyzazel: I think my pronunciation is not too bad but not perfect. I have always impressed the natives with it. I don’t know what kind of country you live in, but if you have contact with immigrants you will find many that have been talking to natives for 20, 30, or 40 years and still have a strong accent. Once you’ve put speaking into practice, accent does not improve without a deliberate decision and determination. When I listen to myself speak Japanese, I don’t want to hear English vowel sounds. For me, using English vowel sounds is very relaxing and easy, but it doesn’t sound good in Japanese. Just like when a Japanese person uses Japanese vowels instead of the correct sounds when speaking English. It doesn’t sound good. So, I want to sound good. I have to be aware of which sounds are not coming out right and I need to replace the bad habits with good ones. Sometimes, when I say ‘ima’ in Japanese, the last vowel comes out as an English schwa instead of the correct Japanese sound. I probably don’t even say the first vowel correctly. Anyway, a foreign accent in Japanese is ugly. It’s harder for natives to process too. Must also get intonation, sound length, and rhythm correct as well. I’ve been living in Japan for 6 years. If I’ve heard an average of 1 hour of Japanese a day, then I’ve been exposed to 2,000 hours. After people start processing for information, they don’t notice the sounds anymore. As long as they are understood they don’t usually continue to make any progress with their pronunciation. I’m not a usual person though. So we’ll see what happens.
thomas: I am familiar with the interview and thus the software, but I’m a Mac. Here’s the link for the PC people. (hope that html tag works) Yeah, I figure if I fail to accomplish what I want with my Japanese pronunciation, then I’ll seek a specialist. Hopefully I won’t have to pay, though. I could be a good subject for a researcher.
Keith | Apr 27, 2009 | Reply
@lyzazel: I think the 1000 hour number comes from the ALG World people. They teach classes with a similar concept to the TV method (ie L2 only, with lots of visual aids), just with real people (the teachers) instead of a TV.
As far as TV Method, I don’t know if anyone has done those 1000 hours. But I’m going to try.
BTW, if I wasn’t doing TV Method, I wouldn’t be learning Thai at all. As far as studying goes, I have my hands full with daily Japanese study. At the end of the day I have no mind or energy to study more. Usually at night before bed I like to relax: I waste time on the internet or play guitar or read a book or something. All I did was replace those activities with watching Thai shows on Youtube. Just as relaxing, but I learn Thai now too.
thomas | Apr 30, 2009 | Reply
Well, nice post.. The TV method work great if you could find it with subs. That’s how I learn vietnamese through that. The language spoken is vietnamese and the sub is vietnamese too. This way, I learnt how the words being pronounce and by looking at the picture, I roughly know what’s going on in the show. That’s how you link the words to the meaning.
Saint | May 30, 2009 | Reply